This is my repsonse to comments that i got from someone calling himself Indian Muslim. As you would see from his comments, his understanding of India and his ethos is very low. Please decide yourself.
- Definition of Legend Oxford Concise English Dictionary: A traditional story popularly regarded as historical but which is not authenticated; Oxford Pocket English Dictionary: A traditional story from the past which may or may not be true
Definition of Puranas : eighteen ancient books consisting of legends and mythological narrations dealing with creation, recreation and the genealogies of sages and rulers
Definition of Mythology (Oxford Pocket English Dictionary): Set of widely held but exaggerated or false stories or beliefs.
Reply: Thanks for telling me the oxford pocket dictionary meaning of English words. I definitely need it given that I am on a temporary assignment in London.
Look my friend, matter of faith is never solved by oxford dictionary meanings.
Faith is something that you and I cannot comprehend. How can you define the fact when people travel to places like Kumb Mela or Perform Hajj and think that their soul will get cleansed by doing so? When holy books say that God create the world with Adam and Eve and Noah had an Arc through which he saved the world. You and I can discuss scientifically all this and maybe able reject these theories but for most it is a matter of faith and I as an Indian and that too a proud one – am committed to make sure that people are allowed to maintain that faith until it doesn’t harm my Nation. I am committed to the fact that our holy constitution has framed a system for all to practise the same and not to ridicule Holy Books like Veda’s or Puran’s or Quran or Bible. Can you scientifically prove anything written in these books? So it is your limited knowledge about other people and their religion and maybe including your own which prompts you to tell me the Oxford dictionary meaning of faith and mythology.
Faith is said to move mountains and that is all I can say.
2. Supported by Malik Family agreed. But who are the pony owners? Who give shelter to Yatris during storms? Who carry the old on their backs? For your information, they are all Muslims since you seem to have seen Kashmir only through the internet and through “mythological” stories.
Reply: Well I really did not know that 300,000 people stay with Pony wallah’s at their homes during storms. I do not think that in the snow storm on the yatra route in 1996, the 250 people who died were the ones who were left out of the pony owner houses. Please let us stop to dramatise the situation. Religions and people co exist and for multiple reasons, maybe trade and commerce, maybe faith. Leave it to them to run their lives like it is and create situations to smoothen the yatra. Take a look at what Jagmohan did for Vashino Devi Yatra and see how the vested interests tried to do what they are doing in the valley for the Amarnath yatra. Read his book “My Frozen Turbulence” and you get a better idea in your closed mindset.
3. Total No. of Kashmiri Muslims Killed (as per Govt. of India Statistics) since 1988 – 31,000
Total Number of Kashmiri Pandits Killed (as per your own blog): 361
It is grossly incorrect to term Kashmiri Muslims as terrorists. The statement “All terrorists are Kashmiri Muslims” can to an extent be a valid statement. But when you take the converse statement it is an utter violation of logical reasoning. The total Terrorist population by exaggerated estimates would be no more than 1% of the entire population.
Hence if you say Yatris were killed by Kashmiri Muslims, I suggest you go back to school and take a class in reasoning.
By the way, terrorists have no religion and have been misusing religion/race/creed since time immemorial across the world.
Reply: Deaths in a conflict zone are inevitable and as there are no Pandits left, it is the Muslims who would be on the death list. If there are 200,000 official guns of the security forces in the valley and 3500 terrorists, you can well imagine that killings would happen. Guns do not shoot out roses but deadly bullets. As far as who kills these people, well I cannot say Robots or Birds or Hunguls; it must be humans and if there are mostly one community there, it is some disgruntled elements from the same doing it on provocation of our friendly Jhootistan neighbour. Once peace returns in the valley and one day it will, the people in valley will understand that the cost they paid for all this violence was far greater than what they were promised by our friendly Jhootistan neighbour.
Also thanks for the school suggestion, will look into it.
4. SASB had only 8 Hindu members - Justice (Retd) G D Sharma, Prof Vishnu Murti Shastri, Sunil Sachdeva, Manoj Gaur, Dr Vimla Dhar, Professor Neerja Mattoo, Raghu Modi and Dr Arun Kumar. The people who did the actual work on field were all Kashmiri Muslims. Thus, to say that just 8 people managed a gathering of 300,000 people is absolutely ridiculous.
Reply: Does your oxford dictionary tell you about the word Governance or Leadership? There are only 40 Lt Generals in the Indian Army of 1 Million Men and Women. Does this that they do all the fighting or they are just to lead men without discriminating on any basis? I really do not believe in this hindu members in hindu shrines or muslim in muslim shrines. My simple yardstick is that if any Indian can lead an army battalion without any discrimination, why shrine boards can’t be run like same. We are not asking them to pray but to behave like a professional and work in his or her area of professional expertise to enhance the spiritual quest of the followers.
5. I absolutely agree with your statement. The primary aim of Pakistan is to destroy any and every system in India. They had been trying to disconnect the Valley from the rest of India for the past 20 years. When they didn’t succeed people in Jammu came to their aid. For God’s sake stop communalizing the whole issue.
Reply: How is it not communalised? Look the problem if it has to be tackled needs to be sorted head on. First accept that there is an insurgency and that too Muslim insurgency in India’s only Muslim majority state. Just by saying so does not make the personal communal. It is like older people in India never say the person has cancer but they always say that he has a bad illness – running away from the reality. There are number of questions that need to be asked: Why is the insurgency there? How has the Indian state treated Kashmir, Jammu and Ladakh? How are the people doing vis a vis other parts of India and also P.O.K? How has the Indian Army ever operated in a counter insurgency operations in the valley before 1988? What was the crime rate in J&K before 1988 and what is it now? Why cannot the people in valley have this fascination for Jhootistan? As you have no idea of the valley; Pakistan Independence Day was celebrated and Indian Independence Day always had a strike call? Why Pakistani team victory was celebrated and not the Indian teams? As you have no idea of Kashmir, probably not coming from there, you are mostly like the Barkha Dutts of Indian Media, who are out of sync with the genesis of the problem. The minute Jammu came out for something it was turned communal and for 20 years valley people have driven out all minorities the situation was secular.
6. As in point No 4
7. I’m sorry but I’ll again say that Jagmohan was responsible for the unfortunate uprooting of Kashmiri Pandits from the Valley. He planned to “cleanse” the Kasmiri separatists in an indiscriminate planned attack. He along with his agencies spread terror amongst the KPs and they used to send Military Trucks to aid the migration. Even today, 1100 KP families still live in the valley. Why did anyone not touch them?
Point 1: Well this is something that if you have not been there you are unable to comprehend. I cannot say much but just to tell you what land means to people in India is that 80% of cases in our courts pertain to Land & Housing. Why such a big number; the reason is that people are unwilling to part with their land or houses even when they are paid hefty amounts. You all would have seen scenes at narmada, nandigram and singur and that is a reflection on what happens if you taken someone out from your land even after paying them money. So pandits were fools to leave their homeland for living in tents because one gentleman had so much power to do that. Maybe we use Mr. Jagmohan for all such places like singur and nandigram.
Point 2. Even today, 1100 KP families still live in the valley. Why did anyone not touch them?
Wandhama massacre refers to the murder of Kashmiri Hindus in the town of Wandhama on January 1998.It was one of the worst incidences of violence against Kashmiri Pandits being carried out by terrorists in Kashmir. It was an illustration of the Kashmiri terrorist's policy of ethnic cleansing .The victims, all of them Hindus, included four children, nine women and 10 men.
Point 3. Military Trucks
Personal Story II: Well I would not like to go far but start with my own family. Our family resided at Karan Nagar locality in Sringar. On 20th of January when Farooq Abdullah had resigned and Mr. Jagmohan had not taken charge (when was no real government in place), the whole valley was shouting slogans like kashmiri pandits leave the valley but keep your women behind for us (translated), what will rule here – nizam e Mustafa, what to worship here holy quran and only quran…..what we need azaadi……there are some more but I really do not want to remember that period. All the newspapers were filled up of notices for KP and other secular people along with their pictures giving notices to them either embrace the movement or suffer death. Leave the valley or suffer death. Who was the person doing all that; people like bitta karate, Yasin malik and their likes. Slowly they started killing key KP people and that too at different localities across the city and the valley to create a feeling that terror had reached the doorsteps of the pandits. Then on the 21st Jan 90, all the mosques in the valley started making theses slogans from their loudspeakers and that went on till at least 2 more days. Similar slogans and that too simultaneously from all over the city. The Doordarshan was totally taken over by terrorist and was broadcasting their news (this was before the entire programming was transferred to Delhi-you might not know and neither it might have been in your oxford dictionary).
So the situation was really terrible and on 24th January, just 2 days before the Republic day; one of my cousins who had grown a beard, went to the batmaloo bus stand to look for a K.M.D (Kashmir Motor Drivers Association) bus to take us to Jammu. No one agreed as they need buses for the mass rally on the 26th where they were told to bring 10 Million people in total to enforce the blockade/strike on the 26th January 1990. Finally one driver agreed (charging 4 times the money) so the family started at 3.30 am in the morning loading 4 suit cases. It was all we took from a 4 storied house having 20 rooms. That was the last time we would see the house. All of the journey will banihal was undertaken sitting on the floor of the very cold bus between the seats. The driver was stopped at 1 or 2 places (even at 3.30 AM) but he told that his “duty” was to collect the people for the rally from banihal. Only once we crossed the tunnel did we get a chance to sit on our seats; 12 people in a bus for 65 people.
Personal Story II: Another cousin of mine (55 year old husband and wife) had come to Delhi in November 1989 during the winter break to meet their son. Learning that the situation was fast deteriorating in the valley for KP’s, my uncle decided that he needs to go back to collect some more clothes and some other valuables from his house. 2 days before he was to leave, our cousins in Jammu (who had moved out of the valley some days earlier) sent a copy of a newspaper having his picture with a warning for him to leave the Valley for good. That was the last he would ever think of visiting his house (nearly 200 year old house for nearly 4 generations – all left because of Mr. Jagmohan).
Anyhow, as half of my family and friends work in the Army/ Defence Forces, after 3 years of migration (in 1993) we could manage to arrange 1 small 407 truck (on a personal basis) with 2 escort trucks of CRPF men (as army cannot be used for all these jobs –so much for the military trucks of Mr. Jagmohan). My uncle’s was given exactly 25 minutes by the Asst Commandant of the CRPF to take his belongings from a house where his family had stayed for nearly 200 years. As my uncle stayed near Habba Kadal – and very near to a major terrorist leaders house (he now has turned hurriyat politician, the commandant did not want to anyone to know that we were vacating the house; so all lights were cut and my uncle and aunt was both given a burkah to wear and take away their 200 years old belongings in 25 minutes. As they went in their house of 200 years without electricity, they realised that it had already been used as a militant store house previously. The temple etc had been desecrated and so had some rooms. Anyways within 25 minutes (like a reality game show) they could gather 3 suitcases and that was the last they saw of their 4 generational home (Thanks to Mr. Jagmohan). Just for your information this uncle of mine is one of the top kashmiri writers whose Books and plays have something like a cult status in the valley for all Hindus and Muslims- who had nothing to do with either Jagmohan or Politics.
Sorry but I have yet to thank Mr. Jagmohan for helping us and also other KP’s with all this including military trucks.
Mr. Indian Muslim – please keep you logic with you. I and also any another KP does not need either your certificate in secularism or oxford dictionary meaning for any word.
Coming to issues at Jammu, we have heard all voices coming from Jammu and from Kashmir. The voices and actions from Jammu are categorically against Muslims to the extent that even houses of Gujjars are being destroyed and supplies to the valley have been stopped.
On the contrary, Kashmiris made all attempts to make the Yatra successful by all means. Who is communal?
Reply: Given last time. Please tell me what Jammu or even Doda (Hindus and Muslims) have got in the last 60 years from Kashmiri politicians.
8. Excuse me; the land belongs to the people of Jammu as well, unless they choose not to associate themselves with the state. They have an equal right being state subjects. I agree that Kashmiri Pandits are also inhabitants of the land and Omar never disputed that in his speech. However, many of the Pandits chose to leave their homeland. I have read the other story about your childhood on your blog. But tell me how were Muslims different from Pandits. More Muslims who went against the terrorists were killed than Pandits. I will again reiterate that Jagmohan was responsible for the migration. Why did Sikhs and Christians never leave? Even after Chhati Singhpora incident? As I have already stated more than 31,000 Kashmiri Muslims have died due to Militancy, and the number excludes the number of Kashmiri Terrorists.
Reply: There are 30 Christians in the Valley and that too mostly running some churchs and schools. Even in the Zionist state of Israel, there are more Muslims (not counting west bank and gaza). The target was to remove the KP as they had a larger share of Central Government Jobs in the valley (the state government jobs were slowly out of the reach for the younger generation). Once that was achieved, no one had any problems for them to visit the valley like a tourist. The fight was to move them out of the valley; as long as they came as tourist, there were always wazawans ready. As for the Sikhs; in 1990 the slogan was “Muslim sikh bhai bhai, yeh Hindu kom kahan se aayee” and there were lots more but unprintable. The fight was to remove Hindus and keep the Sikhs; 2 reasons – 1. the kashmiri terrorist were getting a lot of help from Khalastani terrorists 2. the Sikhs were located in pockets mainly into commerce and agriculture and not in government jobs.
9. It is not about demographics. It is about pollution and contamination of ecology. The SASB started a helicopter service to add to the pollution. They were constructing permanent structures thereby destructing ecology. For evidence you may check their site at http://www.shriamarnathjishrine.com/amarnath-shrine-board.html
Moreover, if the Yatra is going on smoothly, isn’t it immaterial whether the land is transferred or not?
Reply: Ok, that is a new thing. Railways have denuded couple of Lakh trees, the Big Baglihar Dam has done the same, so has been the condition of the city forest that Jagmohan created at casmishai next to the governor’s house for creating a golf course, the big timber mafia at dacigam, nearly 10,000 trees on the Uri Poonch Road, the trees for creating the campus of Baba Ghulam Shah university at Poonch/Rajouri, etc. The structures were temporary as they were the same DRDO made stuff that helped Kashmiri earthquake victims in their time of crisis some years back.
The problem with Omar was his speech was highly charged and when politicians like him with whom people associate themselves overcoming their own religious or regional lines, such politicians need to make speeches in a different tenor. His speech like I said was the final straw in the camels back and now this whole issue has become a matter of prestige.
10. Same a/a
11. Pakistan & ISI are benefiting from the protests and from the economic blockade. Wake up!
Reply: There is no blockade and there was only disruptions. Pleae avoid going by Jhootistan news.
12. Our soldiers died to keep the link open but our fellow citizens- brothers and citizens succeeded!
Yes, everything was well till Jammuites called a strike. The strike called by secular Yasin Malik, Sajjad Lone, Syed Ali Shah Geelani (who unashamedly took 70 lakhs of Indian Tax payers money for his health bills), etc are not economic blockades for people of Kargil, Dras or Leh.
13. By blocking the road they are supporting the plans of secessionists
Yes, the same way as today sitram yechury of CPM has said in his article in the Hindustan Times , that we should not vote for BJP or any other party that we like - as the Militants say that they too like that party. There can be nothing more ridiculous than this. This is what creates communal politics in the long run. Also today Mr. Geelani has blamed the entire problems of J&K on the communal parties of Jammu. Look who is talking.
14. We want a unified state under India. Recent developments in Jammu aim at further dividing the state.
Yes when Jammu does anything it is dividing and when valley does the same it is all secular. When salman rushdie says something to the prophet Mohd. 5000 miles away the valley will burn, when danes publish highly objectionable cartoons – the valley will burn, when taslima nasreen writes something wrong in Bangladesh the valley must burn – but when jammu protest for 400 acres of land for temporary structures it is all communal and aimed at dividing the state. Please stop saying such unrelevant and unreasonable things. It only strikes fire.
15. I’m sorry but Sikhs and Christians still continue to live in harmony with us. They, like us, never bowed down to terrorism. We have some of the leading schools run by Christian missionaries. Churches, Gurudwaras and temples and mosques continue with their religious proceedings.
If you now say that temples were destroyed, I would like you to find out how many mosques and shrines were destroyed by terrorists? Remember the destruction of one of the holiest shrines at Chraresharief? I again reiterate, terrorists don’t have any religion.
Reply: Thanks but really when you write Christians in the valley, I cannot help laughing at your poor knowledge of the valley or its demographic composition. The terrorist burnt a dargah and that is something that they consider as un Islamic in the deoband-wahibi school of Islamic thought. As the terrorists who did that were non kashmiri, they felt is easy to burn down something that they did not believe in. It also signalled the end of the great sufi tradition of Kashmir. Not a single person on the street rose to condemn that (very similar to what happened during the KP exit from the valley) – no mass hysteria like the land transfer agitation. Even that is the one and only discretion that the terrorist did to a mosque.
It is very unfortunate that sometimes ill informed individuals start to "blog" half-truths encouraging communalism. In the world today when everyone is striving towards peace, please use your efforts to contribute for a better tomorrow. Dont sow seeds of violence and hatered!
Yes, thank you Mr. Oxford Dictionary informed person. For someone to comment on the other judgement is very easy. It is sad that people like you who have no relevance or have not even been there talk about the valley as if it is their play ground. I term it as the Barkha Dutt syndrome – you unfortunately have it and I really cannot help. I do not need your secular tag and you can keep that with yourself, writing irrelevant responses to blog’s without understanding what people construe as a simple thing as religion. For you the purans as well as other holy books of muslims, Sikhs, Christians, jews and others are a source of mythology which in turn is all falsehood, then I can not discuss this issue any further. I might be personally an atheist but I have no right to question the beliefs of millions of muslims, hindus or other religious people of India. This is how this great nation of Bharat has run for 5000 years and this is how it will run for 50000000000 + years. This is why our nation is named Bharat and I might not agree with everything of King Bharata but on his name is our great country named.
I guess like millions of other Indian who do not know this story or of why our country was named Bharata, please read this and realise the importance of mythology in the life of all Indian Hindus, muslims , Sikhs and each and every one who calls himself an Indian citizen. Maybe it will help make you a better Indian and also a better Muslim.
